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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.30 14:27:51 -
[1] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:While it is a player driven world, that does not mean that the NPC's should be irrelevant. They should be moving forward on their own agenda, not simply be things to shoot etc.
Maybe the standings loss to a players corp should be massively reduced in low & null sec admittedly, it is a very big hit. You haven't said anything that runs contrary to the problem at hand. NPCs can have their agendas, but interference in PVP to this degree, especially in low sec, is not appropriate in this game. Players are not meant to get protection, or assistance, from NPCs in low sec. It's never happened before in the history of EVE, and every now and again when someone suggests on these forums the ability to hire NPCs for protection, they get shut down for the same reasons that the current NPC mining response fleets are a problem due to negative standings acquired for killing players in that NPC corp. Let me remind you that the negative standings I have with DCM are largely the result of killing players in that corp, not for going after DCM. I have no problem with DCM. They are NPCs, what kind of problem would I possibly have with them?
Well... they get assistance at the gates right? The reason they don't get assistance at belts is because the gate guns were only at gates.
Now... Detris players who've left their corp end up getting protected in belts where NPC miners are at. I'm sure the reason for this mechanic is so that players who regularly gank the NPC miners get aggressed on sight. I think the main issue with this isn't that it's unfair to the pirate... but rather that it give an advantage to one bloodline over the others in the game (even if it's a very specific scenario... NPC corp mining) |

Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 14:29:40 -
[2] - Quote
I may be misunderstanding this...
Do the NPC miner security fleets agress you just because of your standings with their corp?
Or will they aggress anyone attacking a DCM player where NPC miners are present? |

Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 14:50:19 -
[3] - Quote
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:Easy fix is for NPC's to cease all activities when player with negative standings warps in so that he may gank in peace. Once he leaves, NPC's may go about their business.
Well, in a vacuum it makes sense for a NPC corp to attack you if you have negative standings with their corp.
But I am seeing the downside in the fact that the corp they're associated with has players in it. Sounds to me like the fix isn't to change the mechanic of how they engage... but just not have them be part of DCM, but rather a different NPC corp. |

Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
23
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Posted - 2017.01.03 14:31:04 -
[4] - Quote
I think the simple answer is to change nothing about the behavior of NCP miners... just make sure that none of the mining fleets belong to corps that players can be a part of.
If I understand it correctly... right now there is one corp that has mining fleets that players can be a part of. Just... take their mining fleets away. Problem solved. |

Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
23
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 16:16:42 -
[5] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It makes sense that a player would lose standing for killing capsuleers in a corp.
Just as killing capsuleers in a player corp causes antagonism.
In this way NPC corps emulate player corps.
It does.
The problem is there is only one NPC corp for one bloodline where this has an impact (Deep Core Mining/Deteis I believe).
It's stupid to have a protection mechanism there for just one bloodline's NPC corp. "Oh... he's in DCM. I won't attack him because I don't want mining fleet's defense forces attacking me."
It has a really easy solution as well. DCM shouldn't have mining fleets so that no players get that protection. Just move those fleets to another NPC corp. Problem solved. Those attacking miners can still get bad enough standings to be attacked on sight... but those who've been ganking players for years don't all of a sudden become KOS to a specific group of NPC miners that didn't exist when they began ganking. And players don't get protection from ganking because their NPC corp has mining fleets. |

Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
24
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Posted - 2017.01.04 15:10:23 -
[6] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lena Crews wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lena Crews wrote:
It does.
The problem is there is only one NPC corp for one bloodline where this has an impact (Deep Core Mining/Deteis I believe). s.
Its in the pipeline that this will be applied to many more NPC corps, as well as Pirate corps (possibly differently). I'm referring to that list. It still only impacts one corporation that players can belong to... and they can only belong if they are one specific bloodline. It's really simple to remove that corporation from the list with mining fleets. Problem solved. It would seem it will be applied to a great deal more than just that 1 NPC corp.
I only noticed one NPC corp that players can join on the list. What others besides DCM are getting mining fleets?
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Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.04 15:19:34 -
[7] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:None. This would be the root issue.
I feel like one of the two primary participants in the argument here is missing that root issue.
So I'll try again.
There is NOTHING wrong with how the NPC mining fleets react to those with low standings.
The problem is simply that one bloodline of one race can belong to the NPC corp of one of those mining fleets. This grants them a protection that doesn't exist for other players.
If a have a toon in DCM... why should he be ignored by pirates who don't want to hurt their standings with DCM so they get ganked by mining fleets when my toon in the SCOPE cannot? It's not like I get the CHOICE of what NPC corp my toon goes to. It's set by the bloodline.
Simple solution... no mining fleets for DCM. Keep them for non-player NPC corps. Problem solved, little effort to the devs. |

Lena Crews
Universal Sanitation Corporation
25
|
Posted - 2017.01.04 15:35:59 -
[8] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Lena Crews wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:None. This would be the root issue. I feel like one of the two primary participants in the argument here is missing that root issue. So I'll try again. There is NOTHING wrong with how the NPC mining fleets react to those with low standings. The problem is simply that one bloodline of one race can belong to the NPC corp of one of those mining fleets. This grants them a protection that doesn't exist for other players. If a have a toon in DCM... why should he be ignored by pirates who don't want to hurt their standings with DCM so they get ganked by mining fleets when my toon in the SCOPE cannot? It's not like I get the CHOICE of what NPC corp my toon goes to. It's set by the bloodline. Simple solution... no mining fleets for DCM. Keep them for non-player NPC corps. Problem solved, little effort to the devs. That's one solution. Another would be to drop players to "no corp" when not in a player corp, and apply taxes based on their empire standings. They can still be afforded protection from wardecs as a non-corporate freelance entity, but with all the drawbacks of being in an NPC corp, like no property ownership (POCOs and the like). Another option is to give players a choice of NPC corp to join, with each one affording unique benefits and penalties (balanced of course) depending on their speciality. Another solution could be to simply remove standings loss for killing players, which is something that's bugged me since forever anyway, because it doesn't make any sense, mechanics wise. Sure, you could argue that a player corporation might drop your standings for killing their members, but the corp I just got done wardeccing, Honk Squad, are now mutually blue to each us because we had a lot of fun. Player corps have that option, to set each other blue after blowing each other up, as well as to set each other red, or just ignore each other altogether and chalk it up to "**** happens". I only wrote out two options in the OP, because it was already long enough, and I was hoping for discussion based around recognition of the flaws, hashing out other solutions, and eventually getting CCPs attention. But now, as I said earlier, I just don't care anymore.
That solution seems fairly difficult to implement. Changing the corp of NPC mining fleets seems fairly easy. Unless the CCP developers think much differently than I do when coding... probably best to go with the quick and easy solution.
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